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Build talk:Team - HA Shockwave Balanced
Archive k, redone it all, should survive the update, SYG will still work with 6 casters. —''The preceding unsigned comment was added by'' Gringo (talk • ) (UTC). 18:07, January 27, 2010 (UTC) Yes, this is soooo new. :who said anything about new? —''The preceding unsigned comment was added by'' Gringo (talk • ) (UTC). 19:03, January 27, 2010 (UTC) ::That para bar looks like a piece of crap and still it owns HA...GW is dead [[User:Tyraelxy|'Tyrael']] Logic! 22:44, January 27, 2010 (UTC) :::+crits +blocks +armor +150 spike dmg = crap? WY is just for intense energy management with GTFE. —''The preceding unsigned comment was added by'' Gringo (talk • ) (UTC). 22:51, January 27, 2010 (UTC) ::::I said it LOOKS like crap, not that it is... btw fixed para bar [[User:Tyraelxy|'Tyrael']] Logic! 23:01, January 27, 2010 (UTC) Rant time Overrating bad builds is bad. Single target spikes (especially ones with hammer wars that don't have dash) are ridiculously easy to prot/infuse, even if you're the greatest faker in the world. The paragon is god awful, ignoring the fact that he apparently sucks so much that he can't manage 2 energy attacks + stand with GFTE and thus has to waste a skill slot on WY!, players came to the conclusion that a single, unchainable DA is pretty shitty defense months ago, and is thus a waste of your elite slot. Signet of return is fucking terrible; on the off chance that you actually get it off, you'll have had a teammate rezzing for 5s, one down for 5s and he'll come up with at best ~75% health/25% energy. You have a paragon and a hammer, yet only one copy of conc and you put MH! or your ele? Sounds like a good fucking plan to me. On to your rit who's so bad he apparently needs two emanagement skills and doesn't know how to do a proper att split? How is a rit that drops his third weapon spell AND enchantment removal more defense? ESPECIALLY in a spike build. Your shitter mesmer apparently pd-locks himself so much that he needs to take pdrain over pleak meaning you're going to take 5 minutes to even start shutting something down because you have no pblock/pleak. tl;dr this is a really shitty build, with shitty defense that will take a solid 10-15 minutes to win a match (assuming it manages to stay alive that long).--TahiriVeila 17:07, January 28, 2010 (UTC) :Actually no. :Prots find it extraordinarily hard to prot when they've got a mesmer camping them actually, and there is easily enough damage to kill through an infuse. :The Paragon can be on every spike with two spear attacks, keep up either DA or SYG all the time. If you try doing that without WY, you'll fail miserably. DA is a fantastic skill, even if there is only one of them. :Does it matter if MH is on your nuker? He can nuke snarers while MHing relic runner, the absolute only disadvantage would be he can't always go for ghostly on the early relic map. The Para bar is too tight to fit it on, but you can always drop SYG + WY and put in MH/FB, you don't have to run these exact bars. :Aegis takes care of SoC, and almost no teams are bringing Leech Signet these days, so why waste a skill slot on two? :How hard is it to get off Sig of Return when SoC is up? It's not hard to ask a hammer with enraging to give you SoC, and a good one will use it when something dies. It works the same as flesh (for get this, a 1 second longer casting time), and it brings people up with 12x7 = 85% hp most of the time. :When your rit is using Channeled Strike on every single spike, while actively protting with weapon spells, he won't even have close to enough energy with OoS. Why are you complaining about losing his enchant strips when there is a mesmer with rend/shatter? I'd rather have him on a 120 dmg spike support then with shitty rend, thats hardly anything to complain about. :This isn't a pressure build, and you don't need pleak to shut a prot down, you need to be using shame/diversion. Most mesmers will use those less and use interrupts more, but when you are 321 spiking you need to be shutting down spirit bond + ls, and you won't be pleaking those will you? :All of this is just failed theorycrafting by you, the build actually works really well. It's a holding build with a huge spike, good shutdown, and lots of defense. Try playing against it sometime and have fun dealing with DA, SYG, WY, Eruption, 2 perma weapons, 2 monks, and a mesmer/hammer that can both play defensive if we need it. —''The preceding unsigned comment was added by'' Gringo (talk • ) (UTC). 17:21, January 28, 2010 (UTC) ::lolololol, yes because a veiled prot with spirit bond (only shockwave is under 60) can't get anything off. You're paragon must REALLY suck if he needs two 4adren shouts to maintain energy, DA paragons with two energy based attacks have NEVER had energy problems in the past with just GFTE!, and if they did, that's what a zealous spear when not spiking is for. Lolololololol @ people not bringing leech, I haven't played tombs much in the last 2-3 month but WHENEVER I have the mesmer ALWAYS brings pd/leech/pleak or pblock/cry/leech. EVERY dom mesmer in tombs runs leech. And have you even read the description on pd? IT INTERRUPTS THROUGH CONC SILLY, have fun trying to get off a 5s with a mesmer looking for hard rezzes, even if you have conc up. Most people run their backup hard rez on a mesmer so they get FC + 40/40 set = 1-2s cast time on flesh. And if you run proper attributes on a rit (12+1+2 channeling, 11+1 resto, 6+1 spawning) and have a half competent rit who's actually protting with weapon spells instead of just maintaining them, energy is no problem at all. Shame and diversion are useless if you don't have any pressure, prot can just hold veil or call for a remove from the heal/midline. Please don't tell me this is bad theorycrafting when no one even PLAYS this shitty build.--TahiriVeila 19:13, January 28, 2010 (UTC) :::Jake I'm sorry to tell you this but you suck pretty bad at theorycrafting. Also, haven't seen a mes run leech in fucking ages, its just not worth it considering 99% of teams are too bad to aegis the soc. /Agree with the zealous spear point tho. You are just naming the counter to every hard rez btw, shit PD goes through SoC on pact 4 sec cast oshtttttttttttttttttttt! Also, rend -> rupt veil = ? I mean, admittedly noone except baz plays it but you saying it can't kill is fucking ridiculous. How else do you think legoway and this build were meta for so long? O noes legoway rupt da veil nigaaaa Rawrawr Dinosaur 19:33, January 28, 2010 (UTC) :::You are being pretty dumb Jake. Stop menstruating. --Crow 19:49, January 28, 2010 (UTC) :::Quit while you're behind. —''The preceding unsigned comment was added by'' Gringo (talk • ) (UTC). 19:58, January 28, 2010 (UTC) ::::Ups well whenever I ran balanced with book/OG/yumy we ran mesmers with leech/pleak. And that doesn't change the fact that balanced has more defense that that shitty para provides because active defenses like water eles/melshot rangers are way more effective than passive defenses like aegis.--TahiriVeila 21:28, January 28, 2010 (UTC) ::::Posting in a pointless flame war. -- Big McStrongfist 20:17, January 28, 2010 (UTC) ::::::this proves even more why getting rid of BM's is good. it will make tahiri stop being bad. actually if BM's were gonna stay, he would have been removed anyways. this is hawt btw. i think i saw someone running this but they had a rupt on the para instead of WY!.--Bluetapeboy 20:51, January 28, 2010 (UTC) also can someone remove Tahiri's vote and restore Goldenstar's? Tahiri is obviously very bad at GW.--Bluetapeboy 21:01, January 28, 2010 (UTC) :Same person. You best be trollin. Also he's r11 hero iirc. -- Big McStrongfist 21:25, January 28, 2010 (UTC) ::^10*. —''The preceding unsigned comment was added by'' Gringo (talk • ) (UTC). 21:30, January 28, 2010 (UTC) :::zzz i need like 500 fame for r11, that's like 1 weekend of play. QQ moar--TahiriVeila 21:32, January 28, 2010 (UTC) ::::lol thats not what QQ means, and you just got r10 (and haven't played in 2-3 months), so you couldnt have 5k fame without playing. its a pointless argument, it just seems dumb to lie about titles. —''The preceding unsigned comment was added by'' Gringo (talk • ) (UTC). 21:33, January 28, 2010 (UTC) :::::Apparently you don't hold halls much. A couple of four hour holds with OG make you fame real fast!--TahiriVeila 21:34, January 28, 2010 (UTC) :::::And QQ -> crying. I'm pretty sure you can qualify your bitching over a single rank to be categorized under crying.--TahiriVeila 21:41, January 28, 2010 (UTC) Anyway bored of this now, i'll give you a good rating if baz is running it, but it's still pretty shite. Plus baz is a fucking crazy portugese man with the worst internet connection i've ever encountered!--TahiriVeila 21:41, January 28, 2010 (UTC) :i play it with baz every day, and we have a lot of success with it. the only problem we have is Golden Gates, its a gigantic map and it makes spiking very hard, other then that it works very well. —''The preceding unsigned comment was added by'' Gringo (talk • ) (UTC). 21:43, January 28, 2010 (UTC) ::Everything tells me that good players will do better with balanced than this, but i'll take your word for it.--TahiriVeila 21:47, January 28, 2010 (UTC) :::if you're not sure then i'd rather no vote at all isntead of a 3.8. for someone that hasn't played in 2-3 months (your quote not mine), it doesnt make sense to vote when the 3 best players here tell you you're wrong. —''The preceding unsigned comment was added by'' Gringo (talk • ) (UTC). 21:49, January 28, 2010 (UTC) ::::I said heroes ascent hasn't been my focus for the last 2-3 months, that doesn't mean I haven't played that area or that I hadn't been playing GWs actively =\--TahiriVeila 21:50, January 28, 2010 (UTC) :::::actually you said you had uninstalled. the point is, you're being very stubborn despite logic + majority. —''The preceding unsigned comment was added by'' Gringo (talk • ) (UTC). 21:53, January 28, 2010 (UTC) ::::::I uninstalled like 2 weeks ago zzz. And quit bitching, I acknowledged that it's not as bad as I originally estimated and gave it a better vote. zzz--TahiriVeila 22:23, January 28, 2010 (UTC) by three best players, you mean yourself and bluetape, saint? ··· Danny So Cute 22:18, 28 January 2010 (UTC) :owait. crow said something about jake being dumb. did crow rate the build good, though? ··· Danny So Cute 22:19, 28 January 2010 (UTC) ::crow and alex, people that actually have gw installed? stay on user talks danny, have enuf drama on the page. —''The preceding unsigned comment was added by'' Gringo (talk • ) (UTC). 22:21, January 28, 2010 (UTC) :::that's 2 people. stop counting yourself, tbh. you're not "good". ··· Danny So Cute 22:28, 28 January 2010 (UTC) ::::No one on this site is good. Also, Jake wears lace panties and fishnet stockings. C:\PvX>Abort, Retry, Panic? 22:30, January 28, 2010 (UTC) :::::^ ··· Danny So Cute 22:31, 28 January 2010 (UTC) :::::Only when i'm in bed with you panic <3--TahiriVeila 22:34, January 28, 2010 (UTC) ::::::I still have that picture of you, bbz. C:\PvX>Abort, Retry, Panic? 22:36, January 28, 2010 (UTC) :::::::Rocky horror was such a shitty film--TahiriVeila 22:42, January 28, 2010 (UTC) ::::::::I want to lick your face. C:\PvX>Abort, Retry, Panic? 22:47, January 28, 2010 (UTC) Question Why have a paragon instead of an MoI? moI + shockwave means you never lose relics, it's just as much spike damage, and you have way more defense through extended utility (snares) and blurred. Just my thoughts.--TahiriVeila 22:26, January 28, 2010 (UTC) :A few reasons. He's one of your relic runners (you can make your hammer run if you want, but i love having him to knock down snarers). You underestimate SYG + DA (syg is -35% damage, DA is great for physical heavy teams, including rspike). A water ele won't do much to stop ranged spikes except cast blurred, and SYG is amazing on altars vs aoe. 100 ranged spike damage is pretty good, and the only way to stop him is to blind him, and no one runs blind in HA (except dust trap, and he's standing still anyway). Losing snares for blocks/armor seems like a perfectly acceptable tradeoff, and block/armor help vs a wider variety of things. —''The preceding unsigned comment was added by'' Gringo (talk • ) (UTC). 22:33, January 28, 2010 (UTC) ::Rspike is dead like today. Blurred gives you the same effect as DA, yeah you lose SWG but you get so much defensive effect out of snares. You shouldn't need earth shaker on snares if you have a pd mes really.--TahiriVeila 22:41, January 28, 2010 (UTC) :::rspike is far far from dead (just last night we beat Vigor running it), and blurred is only the same if you get it on every physical. lots of teams are running 2-5 physicals, and in 1v1v1 matches you get party wide support versus all physicals. SYG reduces 35% of sh, glaive, shockwave, etc, and thats a much bigger advantage in HA then slowing down melee (when youve got grasping/foes/eruption/da/syg already). —''The preceding unsigned comment was added by'' Gringo (talk • ) (UTC). 22:44, January 28, 2010 (UTC) :::also, tonight water bar gets a nerfy nerf. —''The preceding unsigned comment was added by'' Gringo (talk • ) (UTC). 22:47, January 28, 2010 (UTC) ::::The update goes live tonight? Also Dee is the best player on this site. I'm pro fort aspenwood, and I has r7 lightbringer on my warrior. :> -- Big McStrongfist 23:09, January 28, 2010 (UTC) ::::The only nerf to water bars is increasing the energy of MoI from 5 to 15, which doesn't change anything. And considering glass and all of the major damage skills in the marks line got nerfed, I'd say it's pretty much dead. I'd still prefer the added utility of a water ele over the passive defense of a paragon. That's just me, I prefer utility over passive defense, but utility barsrequire good players and passive defense doesn't--TahiriVeila 01:48, January 29, 2010 (UTC) :::::"Your shitter mesmer apparently pd-locks himself so much that he needs to take pdrain over pleak meaning you're going to take 5 minutes to even start shutting something down because you have no pblock/pleak." Lol Tahiriveila if you run a PD mesmer with P leak i think you dont know how to HA [[User:Tyraelxy|'Tyrael']] Logic! 16:04, January 29, 2010 (UTC) ::::::pleak is a perfectly viable skill. —''The preceding unsigned comment was added by'' Gringo (talk • ) (UTC). 16:07, January 29, 2010 (UTC) :::::::Not on a PD mesmer -.- [[User:Tyraelxy|'Tyrael']] Logic! 16:08, January 29, 2010 (UTC) ::::::::You're joking right? Most PD mesmers I played with ran pd/pleak/leech (and these are r12/c6+ guys :<)--TahiriVeila 16:10, January 29, 2010 (UTC) ::::::::no one cares about ranks jake. @ty, yes on a pd mesmer. pleak the prots channeling and victory ensues. —''The preceding unsigned comment was added by'' Gringo (talk • ) (UTC). 16:11, January 29, 2010 (UTC) ::::::Dumb of shit. --Crow 16:22, January 29, 2010 (UTC) ::::::::Tyrael, you've already proved on multiple occassions you don't play good HA, this is another one. Pleak prots channeling = lolol. Rawrawr Dinosaur 16:27, January 29, 2010 (UTC) :::::::::And there we have it, four best players on pvx just told you pleak is orgasmic. You still disagree?--TahiriVeila 16:31, January 29, 2010 (UTC) ::::::::::and there you have it, the 3 best just told you why this build is great, and you still 3.8 it. you still disagree? —''The preceding unsigned comment was added by'' Gringo (talk • ) (UTC). 16:32, January 29, 2010 (UTC) :::::::::::Krau never said it was good he just called me a nobr and alex yelled at me for trashvoting, not for goodvoting. ^.^ --TahiriVeila 16:36, January 29, 2010 (UTC) Um, question: Is it run? If it's run, and it doesn't get kittenstomped, then good. If it kittenstomps others, then great. Yes? [[User:Karate Jesus|'Karate']] [[User_talk:Karate Jesus|'Jesus']] 16:44, 29 January 2010 :According to alex and saint bazuri runs it. But he's probably the ONLY one who runs it. In my opinion it sacrifices too much utlity for heavy damage spikes tbhat are too easy to prot. Hence I gave it a "good" rating instead of a great rating.--TahiriVeila 16:49, January 29, 2010 (UTC) :yes its run, no it doesnt get kittenstomped, yes jake is failing. —''The preceding unsigned comment was added by'' Gringo (talk • ) (UTC). 16:51, January 29, 2010 (UTC) ::Then push through "Good" for now and we'll push great if it gets run more often. c? [[User:Karate Jesus|'Karate']] [[User_talk:Karate Jesus|'Jesus']] 17:12, 29 January 2010 :::Was essentially my argument. ::::no ur reasons were a bunch of horrible theorycrafting. I dont see why we shouldnt put a great build in great, when literally everyone has told jake he's wrong. people dont run a lot of good builds because everyone is either swaying or not HAing because of sway, so don't judge a build based on the number of people running it (in this case), because you could say "oh contagion sucks because only one team runs it". —''The preceding unsigned comment was added by'' Gringo (talk • ) (UTC). 18:23, January 29, 2010 (UTC) :::::Stop being a dickfuck. Shockwave wasn't "Great" back when I ran it regularly. It isn't "Great" now. And if it is "Great", then Rawr is a terrible faggot for telling me it was bad, c? ··· Danny So Cute 18:33, 29 January 2010 (UTC) ::::::you have no idea what youre on about danny. it was in Great back when it was run, look at the votes frosty removed or check history. stick to user talks, you haven't got a clue what you're talking about. —''The preceding unsigned comment was added by'' Gringo (talk • ) (UTC). 18:37, January 29, 2010 (UTC) ::::::Danny, i have talked to you about guild wars like.. once in the past 6 months. When I used to run this all the time, I didn't talk to you at all. I think shockwaves probably one of the best eles out there and I always have, run them all the time. I really dunno what you are talking about o_O Rawrawr Dinosaur 18:45, January 29, 2010 (UTC) :::::::It was back when I was running shockwave with heroes with various people. You were all like "Danny stop suk". We were running basically this exact build but with something over the para and a Tease hero. ··· Danny So Cute 18:59, 29 January 2010 (UTC) ::::::::So tell me if you guys are all such awesome HA players, why didnt you mainbar Pleak then: http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:Me/N_Psychic_Distraction_Mesmer [[User:Tyraelxy|'Tyrael']] Logic! 19:29, January 29, 2010 (UTC) ::::::::Well done, I shall respect your expertise [[User:Tyraelxy|'Tyrael']] Logic! 19:56, January 29, 2010 (UTC) ran this today with a R/A over the paragon bar. Made like...36 fame (yes i'm nub), but damn I jizzed whenever a bunch of damage counters popped up when I hit that Shockwave. And btw sorry for off topic but rspike isnt dead, faced it thrice with this build. Lost all 3 with r8+ backline....ExpiredYogurt 04:13, January 30, 2010 (UTC) :which is why you run the paragon instead of the r/a. so you lol@rspike. —''The preceding unsigned comment was added by'' Gringo (talk • ) (UTC). 04:20, January 30, 2010 (UTC) ::Wtf are people rspiking with? Punshot?--TahiriVeila 05:23, January 30, 2010 (UTC) :::+expert's focus. i've seen a few variations of the midline, but uNb and duB ran para + necro. —''The preceding unsigned comment was added by'' Gringo (talk • ) (UTC). 05:30, January 30, 2010 (UTC) c'mon i think its fair that we either 1: restore my vote, or 2: remove gringo's and frosties vote, its kinda like WTF to see oen vote the exact same as the other removed for currently no apparent reason.--Bluetapeboy 13:03, January 30, 2010 (UTC) :just revote tbh. ··· Danny So Cute 19:53, 30 January 2010 (UTC) I don't think voters really get it... Of course the spike is obvious as fuck, thats what diversion and shatter enchant are for. If you want the rit on every spike then you need gole sadly, with just oos c-strike is like, lol you can't use me more than twice a minute. DA is good by itself, i have no idea why people think you need to chain it, the 10 seconds it is up it is still preventing as much damage as it would in the 10 secs its up in a DA chain? :\ Rawrawr Dinosaur 15:43, February 1, 2010 (UTC) :If you really need emnagament, SS is better than GoLE, DA is okay by itself but a snare ele provides just as much defense as well as actual UTILITY instead of just passive defense. Played this twice yesterday running borat's bb/sword build, and we had like, 2 deaths. Honestly, semi-competent monks can catch this so easily, and if you don't ball it's GG--TahiriVeila 15:50, February 1, 2010 (UTC) ::actually no. —''The preceding unsigned comment was added by'' Gringo (talk • ) (UTC). 16:50, February 1, 2010 (UTC) :drain ench or pdrain on rit for e-manage that isn't just e-manage? cbf'd looking at att spread, but it's not like either needs a whole lot of invest. ··· Danny So Cute 20:59, 1 February 2010 (UTC) ::glyph takes 0 spec, works no matter what (dont have to hit a rupt, have a spirit down, etc), works on WoW, RW, pwk, and CS, and you can use it right after ressing to get your energy back on track. its the perfect skill for the bar. —''The preceding unsigned comment was added by'' Gringo (talk • ) (UTC). 21:24, February 1, 2010 (UTC) :::I've just always viewed GoLE kinda like Healsig. It's great if you're already using your secondary for something useful on an ele or need consistent, reliable e-manage (gvg monks). if the att spread wouldn't allow anything decent to go into inspiration or another line, than it's perfect. but if you've got points sitting around not doing much, though, why not take some more utility? ··· Danny So Cute 22:50, 1 February 2010 (UTC) ::::he doesn't have points sitting around, plus inspiration forces you to hit on your skills to get teh energy, otherwise you end up worse off then not using teh skill at all. hes got a free secondary anyway, so gole <3 —''The preceding unsigned comment was added by'' Gringo (talk • ) (UTC). 23:08, February 1, 2010 (UTC) :::::meh. i guess. pump them weapons like a nigger, c? ··· Danny So Cute 23:17, 1 February 2010 (UTC) ::::::4040 that warding son. —''The preceding unsigned comment was added by'' Gringo (talk • ) (UTC). 23:20, February 1, 2010 (UTC) (reset indent)why cant we restore my vote? its near the same as all the others, was removed a while back by jake b/c he thought build was bad, now since we know its good and (again) my vote is near/same as all the others, this is rly stupid and unnecessary--Bluetapeboy 20:52, February 3, 2010 (UTC) :also wouldnt 4.52 mean great?--Bluetapeboy 21:04, February 3, 2010 (UTC) ::first, stop putting spaces between comments. second, 4.75+ is great. third, if you care just revote. —''The preceding unsigned comment was added by'' Gringo (talk • ) (UTC). 21:11, February 3, 2010 (UTC) will i get banned by big for 1RV?--Bluetapeboy 21:28, February 3, 2010 (UTC) :for reposting a vote one time removed by a deadbeat buildmaster? doubtfully. ill take the fall if he gets mad. —''The preceding unsigned comment was added by'' Gringo (talk • ) (UTC). 21:38, February 3, 2010 (UTC) ::i still wonder why big remvoed it the first time. if he removes the vote again, send him to the mental hospital immidiatly.--Bluetapeboy 21:41, February 3, 2010 (UTC) :::shut up. you're dumb. ··· Danny So Cute 04:46, 4 February 2010 (UTC) :::And we may have to send you back to the 6th grade. Immediately has two of the letter "i". You're either a brilliant troll or someone who shouldn't be up past 9 because mommy will have trouble getting you up for school. -- Big McStrongfist 04:48, February 4, 2010 (UTC) ::::The scariest part is that he goes to the same college as Ikimono. I never would've thought they'd offer Special Education at the college level. I blame the bleeding-heart liberals. ··· Danny So Cute 04:51, 4 February 2010 (UTC) :::::Maybe they're not in college, but in a community outreach program for the "gifted". Kinda like how Luke is in MENSA. -- Big McStrongfist 04:54, February 4, 2010 (UTC) :::::That's Blazing Burdy, not bluetape. --Frosty 10:59, February 4, 2010 (UTC) ::::::ups. well, there goes my theory. it's hard to keep alliterated baddies straight. =/ ··· Danny So Cute 19:12, 4 February 2010 (UTC) :::::::Does Bluetapeboy really count as an alliteration? It has to be consecutive consonants doesn't it?--TahiriVeila 06:18, May 18, 2010 (UTC)